Here is the TEXT for everyone to read.
The author is a Jewish gentleman from New York, whose little daughter Eve once thought that she had found a mistake in a classic novel; however, what she had read was RIGHT, because it had been fixed by a copy editor. The original author had made a pronoun-antecedent mistake. The little girl thought the actually right version sounded wrong to her, because she had no idea about pronoun-antecedent disagreements and would have spoken slang!!!
Please keep in mind that the correct rule is: If the person committing the action is SINGULAR, the PRONOUN must be SINGULAR, too! Plural would be wrong.
The correct sentence is: "Everybody likes pizza, doesn't he or she?"
The wrong sentence would be: "Everybody likes pizza, don't they?"
These words are ALWAYS SINGULAR:
everybody, everyone, who, no one, somebody, someone, either, neither, none, each.
They are always followed by a PRONOUN in SINGULAR.
The summary is done by:
ENGL300-1: Voniqua Warren (dropped; available for 5 pts. extra credit!!!)
ENGL300-2: Stefanie Kuchta
It is due on Friday, Sept. 2nd, at class time.
The responses by the whole class are due on Wednesday, Sept. 7th, since Monday is off!!!
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by Drew Burnside for 5 pts. extra credit (can be posted any time during the semester)
by: Drew Burnside
The article "Everybody Likes Pizza" written by George Jochnowitz discusses how in the rules of grammar have been reversed. In formal writing if the person who is executing an action is singular then the pronoun must be singular as well. However we often see the reverse. If the person who is executing an action is singular we often times use a plural pronoun. In the article Jochnowitz's daughter brought to his attention that a sentence in an older version of the story "Gone With the Wind" was grammatically incorrect because the way that the sentence was phrased was not the way that she had been taught to write and speak.
Jochnwitz later found that a rewrite of the story was published and that same sentence had appeared to have been corrected. He found that the sentence in the version of the story that his daughter was reading was indeed grammatically correct according to the rules of English grammar.
In the article He explains that formal English in modern texts have been replaced by the informal form for the sake of sound. An example of this was when he visited an elementary school and asked 34 members of the faculty which sentence was correct; "Everybody likes pizza doesn't he..." or "Everybody likes pizza don't they..." He found that of the 34 teachers only 12 responded correctly, but had to ponder the question first.
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by Stefanie Kuchta:
The article "Everybody Likes Pizza" is written by George Jochnowitz in which he discusses the grammatical issue of he or she versus they or them. The article begins with Jochnowitz explaining that his daughter had brought to his attention what she believed was a grammatical error in a classic novel. As it turns out the original edition had written the error the way that the daughter and the author believed it should have been written, but in the edition the daughter was reading had changed it. Why? Apparently a copy editor found the they to be incorrect and therefore replaced it with the grammatically correct he.
He is generally used as a non gender specific word, but with the recent feminist movement women are arguing that she should be used instead. The reason he or she is supposed to be used has to do with it being singular. For example, Everybody is technically singular so the sentence must be finished with another singular even though it sounds incorrect. Whichever word people choose to use it is technically correct for formal English. Although this is the correct way to write it sounds odd to most people. Informally, they would be used, which is also the way most people would structure the sentence. So the question is, is it truly incorrect to write "Everybody likes pizza, don't they?"
Even thought it sounds awkward to me, I agree that, "if the singular-congruent form immediately follows the indefinite, number forms will be consistent
ReplyDeletethroughout the sentence."
I find the arguments against this rule interesting. Feminists are apposed to using “him” in sentences and at the same time, males may be apposed to using “she” because of sexist reasons. Native speakers don’t like this rule of using “they” being equivalent to “him or her” because this sounds awkward. Why is this usage so awkward? Jochnowitz provides the explanation in the last part of the article; this usage sounds awkward because many English speakers have never heard it used. The one who have heard this usage used may have only heard it in very specific classroom situations, and not in the context of interpersonal communication.
The rule of a singular subject followed by a singular pronoun needs to be enforced. Why should we follow some rules of English grammar and not the others?
Pronoun-antecedent disagreements can be tricky to understand. George Jochnowitz's daughter points out what she believes to be an incorrect sentence in Gone With the Wind. However, the sentence was actually correct. I think it all comes down to what is right, and what looks right. Though it might look right to use "they" in a singular sentence, this is actually wrong and "he or she" is supposed to be used. It could be that we are too lazy to add on the extra words, or that we are just so accustomed to saying and writing things this way. As it states in the article, there have been arguments among the sexes about when it's appropriate to use "he" and "she" based on your gender. However, I do not see why it matters because this only further confuses people. Overall, I think we should just stick to the rule that if we are going to start a sentence singular, we need to end it singular and vice versa.
ReplyDeletePronoun-antecedent disagreements are always a struggle. In every day speech we tend to use the plural “they”. We tend to think if it sounds correct it must be correct. However, that is not always the case. If I had read that line in Margaret Mitchell’s Gone With the Wind, I too would have thought I had caught a grammatical error. It tends to sounds more natural to say “Everyone still wants to go out tonight, don’t they?” when grammatically that is not correct. However using a singular in this case sounds awkward. I completely agree with the rule when writing if you start a sentence singular you should end it singular. But when speaking I doubt I will follow that rule because is would sound too awkward.
ReplyDeleteIn the article "Everybody Likes Pizza" they talk about the difference between the use or he and she verses they and them. Even though it does sound awkward to use he or she after using a statement with "everyone" in it; it does grammatically make sense. When using everyone is it has the word "one" in it which is singular, therefore he or she would correlate with it. When using "everybody" the word "body" would more or less correlate with talking about people in a plural form. Overall this article was very interesting and taught me a lot about the differences one may use when speaking in a singular form verses a plural form.
ReplyDeleteI believe the article "Everybody likes pizza, Doesn't he or she?" Explained in great detail the use of "he" or "she" in sentences. The thought of "he", "his", or "him" being used as the dominate factor to objectify the sex of the person without really knowing the sex is wrong. There should be a word that states that the sex of the person is unknown. This article also gave me a better view on the word "they", and how I can use it in the same sentence as "he", and it will mean the same thing.I do believe that this will help me in my future writing.
ReplyDeleteThe article written by George Jochnowitz "Everybody likes pizza, Doesn't he or she?" goes into deep detail explaining the use of proper singular or plural pronouns with the correct antecedent. The sentence "Everybody cheered, I was pleased to hear him," sounds awkward, but it is actually correct because everybody is a word that is meant to be singular so the rest of the sentence must agree in the singular. I did not know that this was proper English before reading this article and many others do not know this rule. When people speak they usually do not follow this rule so it has slowly been weened out of practice and is not even taught in schools. I do feel it is sexist, how can "he" be meant to be neutral when "he" is always considered a man. The use of "he" does not offend me though and I feel that "he" sounds better than "he or she" in many cases, and since it is proper linguistics I am all for it.
ReplyDeleteby: Drew Burnside
ReplyDeleteThe article "Everybody Likes Pizza" written by George Jochnowitz discusses how in the rules of grammar have been reversed. In formal writing if the person who is executing an action is singular then the pronoun must be singular as well. However we often see the reverse. If the person who is executing an action is singular we often times use a plural pronoun. In the article Jochnowitz's daughter brought to his attention that a sentence in an older version of the story "Gone With the Wind" was grammatically incorrect because the way that the sentence was phrased was not the way that she had been taught to write and speak. Jochnwitz later found that a rewrite of the story was published and that same sentence had appeared to have been corrected. He found that the sentence in the version of the story that his daughter was reading was indeed grammatically correct according to the rules of English grammar.
In the article He explains that formal English in modern texts have been replaced by the informal form for the sake of sound. An example of this was when he visited an elementary school and asked 34 members of the faculty which sentence was correct; "Everybody likes pizza doesn't he..." or "Everybody likes pizza don't they..." He found that of the 34 teachers only 12 responded correctly, but had to ponder the question first.
by: Maurice Hatch
ReplyDeleteThe story of Everybody Likes Pizza, Doesn’t He or She explains the tale of the proper usage of singular actions and singular pronouns. Such words like everyone, everybody, no one, somebody, and someone must be always followed with a singular pronoun. The informal level of English communication is becoming modernized with the use of wrong pronoun- antecedents to follow. The reason this is becoming so common is because the use of what sounds right is more respected than proper English. The author (George Jochnowitz ) does a good job of vividly describing instances where this can be recognized. After asking a staff of elementary teachers (34 total) the proper pronunciation of the sentence “"Everybody likes pizza doesn't he..." or "Everybody likes pizza don't they”, less than half responded correctly. Improper grammatical English is becoming more common and this article does a good job of identifying why.
This article goes into great detail about a subject which is so tricky for most people, including myself. Pronoun-Antecedent agreement is so difficult because the incorrect versions are used so often in common informal language, and are starting to seem acceptable to most. This is why when the correct version is used it sounds strange and sometimes incorrect. I thought that this article did a good job of making clear the correct forms for when to use 'they' or 'he or she'. I can't say that I will always say the correct way when speaking with friends because it does come off as awkward at first. I will however, make sure to correct myself in my writing, as this is usually a mistake I don't think about.
ReplyDeleteThe author of the article, "Everybody Likes Pizza" George Jochnowitz talks about the right use of grammar with the words he or she, and they. He first talks about his daughter's novel that was changed by a editor. The article talks about the issues with men and women not agreeing on when he or she should be used instead of they. Also it talks about why he or she is the right grammatical choice instead of they, even though most people use they because it sounds more familiar.
ReplyDeleteThe article “Everybody Like Pizza, Doesn’t He Or She?” is about the difficulties in writing when being gender specific regarding transgender. The grammar that is more accepted now days is considered improper. They liked the pizza, is a proper sentence. However, He or she like the pizza is improper but consider acceptable. I agree with the idea that “if the solution exists in informal speech that may not be used in formal writing, there is something wrong with normative rule”. I am comfortable writing informally than formally. I write how I talk often. Feminist believe that they is already accepted part of speech when referring to more transgender, but he or she is not acceptable, and awkward. The article exposes the conversely in writing of what’s proper improper.
ReplyDeleteI actually took the side of George Jochnowitz in the article, "Everyone Likes Pizza." It made sense when Jocknowitz explained, " it is proper to say,'Everyone has had his Wheaties,' it is likewise proper to say,'Everyone in the crowd must have had their Wheaties today.'" This made the concept much easier to understand. Yes, both are proper but the second sounds much smoother. The part I disagreed with was the part where Jocknowitz quoted George O. Curme. Curme was saying,"The masculine pronouns and possessives are usually employed for persons without regards to sex wherever the antecedent has a general indefinite meaning." I was not used to hearing that because in English we are not use to having masculine or dominant pronouns much like in other languages.
ReplyDeleteI believe that George Jochnowitz is correct in saying that is important to use proper language when writing. However, I do not think people should have to speak properly due to the fact that everyone has their own slang or way of speaking. It would be extremely difficult to teach everyone to speak correctly, when everyone has their own style.
ReplyDeleteI believe that writing correctly is important in the professional world. I also think that using masculine forms of speech is alright in certain situations and if the gender is unknown I would just use the masculine form to be proper and in my opinion it is just simpler.
The article, "Everybody Likes Pizza, Doesn't He or She?" is about pronoun-antecedent disagreements. I find it difficult to explain though I did understand where the author, George Jechnowitz, is telling. Many words that people think are plural are in actual sense, singular. For example: everybody. It is assumed to be plural because it is "referring" to more than one person, but it actuality it is referring to just a single group. It does not grammatically correct so it has become a natural slang for our society. I even agree that it does not sound right to say, but when it comes to the rule, "...if the singular-congruent form immediately follows the indefinite, number forms will be consistent throughout the sentence," anything that follows the rest of the sentence must conform with the singularity of the subject (p. 198).
ReplyDeleteIn the article "Everybody Likes Pizza, Doesn't He or She?" Gerorge Jechnowitz explains how his daughter thought that she caught a grammatical error in the novel. In fact, the sentence turned out to be corrected from the original copy. Later on in the article, they pointed out that although it may seem awkward, using he or she instead of they is actually correct. However, "they" can still be correct depending on the pronoun with indefinite antecedents.
ReplyDeleteSince my mini lesson explains pronoun-antecedent agreement, this topic is the only thing I have been thinking about for the past couple of days. Reading the article “Everybody Likes Pizza”, written by George Jochnowitz helped me reinforce my point of view about the subject. I agree with the rule that if you start singular you must end singular. Everybody, everyone, and anybody are a couple examples of singular antecedents which means you must use he or she or him or her to be consistent. You want to use he or she so you don’t sound sexist like using just he. I agree it does sound awkward and while talking with someone it is not my first thought to use him or her. But, if you want to use they or them you have to start off the sentence plural like using the word people.
ReplyDeletePronoun antecedent agreement can become pedantic. It is possible that people perhaps prefer to use 'they' out of laziness instead of choosing to use 'he/she'; it is more convenient in everyday speech to use a gender neutral 'they' as opposed to the gendered 'he/she'. When it comes to writing academically, I think it is very important to be clear and to use agreeing pronouns and antecedents. But if you're writing a novel or a short story, it seems like the casual (and grammatically incorrect) "they" could be used. I agree with Butler, et. al that the whole issue could be avoided by rephrasing the sentence.
ReplyDeleteThis article starts off with George Jochnowitz describing an incident he had with his daughter. While reading "Gone With the Wind" by Margaret Mitchell, she noticed that a sentence was gramatically incorrect. "Everyone was very polite and kind to her beccause he felt sorry for her." He did research and found that the original text was written differently and that some copy editor had changed it a number of years later. This article goes in to talk about pronoun-antecedent disagreements. I think the main idea of the article is to show that while sentencing are gramatically correct in everyday conversation, they might be formally incorrect. This all leads up to not using our ears to sense if a sentence structure is accurate or not. I know that for me personally, if I think a sentence may be wrong I say it aloud and listen to if it sounds funny. The article makes a good point in saying that even though sentences sound good, they might not be right. This article does a fantastic job of describing the rules and showing vivid examples of how to form sentences correctly when talking about agreement.
ReplyDeleteThe Pizza Article concentrates on the usage of he/she they/them in sentences where everyone is present. According to the article singular actions/singular pronouns like everyone, everybody, no one, somebody, and someone must be always followed with a singular pronoun. The rule of a singular subject followed by a singular pronoun needs to be enforced. As we learned in class, we cannot simply go by what “ sounds right”. We must abide by grammar rules. Although ‘they’ is sometimes more convenient than saying he and/or she rules are rules.
ReplyDeleteThe "Everybody Likes Pizza" article explores an issue in English grammar that comes down to what most people feel most comfortable with. The daughter of the article's author believed she had found a gramatical error in the classic novel "Gone With The Wind". The case, however, was that the error had already been found and was corrected. The daughter believed the sentence to be awkward, yet it was correct since the person performing the action agreed with the pronoun. Although this is one of the more confusing elements of grammar, it has always been one that stuck out to me and oddly enough I was always familiar with and sure to be correct about.
ReplyDeleteThe article, "Everybody Likes Pizza, Doesn't He or She?" tackles a tricky grammar subject which is the correct use of singular action with singular pronouns. Just because a sentence sounds correct when you read it doesn't mean it is correct. In a lot of occasions many words that sound plural are in fact singular which makes the writer use the wrong pronoun in the sentence. For example, the sentence, "Everyone laughed, I was pleased to entertain him," may sound awkward but it is grammatically correct because "Everyone" is meant in a singular context so the pronoun must also be singular.
ReplyDeleteThis article, "Everybody Likes Pizza, Doesn't he or She?" explains that when there is a singular pronoun, there needs to be a singular pronoun following it. Even though certain sentences that follow this rule sound awkward to many people reading it, it is still grammatically correct. This shows how people have gotten used to a certain way something is said or heard even though, this whole time, it has never been correct.
ReplyDeleteThe artical, "Everybody Likes Pizza, Doesn't he or She? by George Jochnowitz describes the use of he and she versus they and them. Georges daughter was reading the classic gone with the wind when she thought that she found a grammatical error. However, the "error" was correct due to the rules associated with proper singular or plural pronouns. I myself think that it is odd to use the singular pronoun because it sounds awkward, However, I do believe that we should know how to write correct grammer especially in our papers and writings.
ReplyDeleteThe article "Everybody Likes Pizza" is discussing about the usage of he and she. They were also talking about different grammatical errors like using he, she or they. Using Singular pronouns and how to correct them ,How Grammar rules have been changed a lot now. Pronouns are not used the same anymore in English. Words like everybody, somebody, someone, and such on are all related to singular pronouns.
ReplyDeleteGeorge Jochnowitz explores the rules of grammar and how they’ve been reversed in his article "Everybody Likes Pizza, Don’t They?” Because of the recent feminist movement, women are arguing that she should also be included rather than just using he. When I write papers and/or when I speak, I never just use he; instead, I use both he and she, or I simply just use they to signify both genders. Moreover, in some cases, I find it less awkward when using “he or she,” rather than “they.” However, it does sound smoother aloud when using “they” because it does sound more awkward when one says, "Everybody likes pizza, doesn't he or she?" This is just one of the many issues in grammar that make it difficult when attempting to speak with proper English. The possible problem in pronoun-antecedent could be that our society is so accustomed to speaking and writing this way that the correct way seems awkward and absurd; however, if society learns the proper way at an earlier age, then the problem could potentially reduce with each new generation. Although speaking it properly would help when transitioning it to paper, the verbal communication between individuals is not misunderstood/lost when saying they as opposed to the correct way—he or she—which then proposes a new question: Is communication more or less important than proper grammar?
ReplyDeleteby Stefanie Feeman:
ReplyDeleteThis article starts off with George Jochnowitz describing an incident he had with his daughter. While reading "Gone With the Wind" by Margaret Mitchell, she noticed that a sentence was gramatically incorrect. "Everyone was very polite and kind to her beccause he felt sorry for her." He did research and found that the original text was written differently and that some copy editor had changed it a number of years later. This article goes in to talk about pronoun-antecedent disagreements. I think the main idea of the article is to show that while sentencing are gramatically correct in everyday conversation, they might be formally incorrect. This all leads up to not using our ears to sense if a sentence structure is accurate or not. I know that for me personally, if I think a sentence may be wrong I say it aloud and listen to if it sounds funny. The article makes a good point in saying that even though sentences sound good, they might not be right. This article does a fantastic job of describing the rules and showing vivid examples of how to form sentences correctly when talking about agreement.
George Jochnowitz talks about pronoun-antecedent and when its appropriate to use he or she or they. I use to think it sounded awkward when someone would say "Everybody like Pizza, doesn't he or she?" instead of saying they, but after taking a foreign language it made more sense to me. This is the english rule and native speakers do not use it in conversational text, but you are being specific and formal about the question, using they becomes informal. Learning a foreign language helps learning how to use pronoun-antecedent, because you see how they are used in another language and it starts to make sense in your own language. I believe this article does a good job giving examples of when and how to use pronoun-antecedent.
ReplyDeleteThe article "Everybody Likes Pizza, Don't They?" goes on to detail on the correct times to use he or she. In English it seems to be more convenient to use they instead in certain spots, but that is in fact incorrect. Pronoun and antecedent disagreement is a tricky thing to get correct, but this article did help to explain the correct usages.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the article "Everybody likes Pizza, doesn't he or she?" by George Jochnowitz, I am not sure what to think. I agree that when using the singular tense the singular pronouns "He" and "She" should be used even if it sounds awkward. However at the same time using "He" or "She" sounds awkward in certain situations where as a native speaker I would use they. I don't agree with the recent feminist movement to change the singular word "he" to "she". I feel that is a little extreme but I do understand where they are coming from. In the end I don't see the problem using "He or she" and "They". I feel they both bring off the same effect even though one is plural. I believe it should just be left alone and be one of those unspoken rules in the English language that is not explained, but is understood.
ReplyDeleteThe article, "Everyone Likes Pizza, Don't They?" acknowledges the correct uses of singular pronouns in indefinite antecedents. Personally, I don't believe I'd ever commonly say a sentence phrased, "everyone likes cats, doesn't he?" The author, George Jochnowitz, does use an example of a survey that was done on 46 high school and junior high school English teachers to see whether using an indefinite antecedent in a sentence was correct or incorrect. Thirty-four out of the forty-six English teachers corrected the indefinite antecedent into a sentence using "they," which was incorrect. By this survey, Jochnowitz exemplifies how although using indefinite antecedents is correct, it is rarely used in daily speech and language because of it's awkward setup. I can agree that it is awkward, and that I probably won't use it in daily language, but I will watch out for it while I write formal papers.
ReplyDeleteThis is by far one of the most difficult articles we've had to process. We've all been taught that "everybody" is singular because it represents every individual body. Under this thinking, we know that "he" and "she" are also singular and should be used, yet we never say those words. We have always been taught to say "they" and using anything else sounds incorrect.
ReplyDeleteThis is a confusing subject because most people are so engrained by their environment to just use "they" even though it is not grammatically correct. The awkwardness is further brought into attention later on in the article with the sentence, "Everybody cheered. I was pleased to hear
ReplyDeletehim." The disagreement is because it is not dealing with a plural pronoun. The article though, tells us that the proper form is that in quotations rather than the slang version by replacing him with them. While it does seem to sound silly, it also comes off as sexist to some which raises debate about whether or not using he or she.
It was not an easy article to get the necessary information out of, but it seems like it mostly talking about rules for grammar. The rules for grammar can make sentences sounds awkward, since we do not use them in everyday.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very confusing subject and something that I personally struggle with in my writing very often. I like to read my writing and think that it is written smoothly, but there is no way to use this rule and have it read smoothly. This is just another way in which people in our culture are so unfamiliar with speaking and writing in a grammatically correct manner.
ReplyDeleteThis article was difficult to process. I would much rather say "Everybody likes pizza, don't they?" I even recognize that this is incorrect, but it does however sound/feel more natural to say. I find it funny however that 34 out of 46 English teachers asked about how to fix this particular indefinite antecedent, said, "They". Apparently, I'm not the only one who feels it is unnatural to use "he or she".
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this article, I began to watch the grammar I use. Sentences sound much better when I say them or when someone speaks to me even though they may be grammatically incorrect. When I read this article I read the sentences two and three times and realized that I have been saying things INCORRECT. I am always quick to correct others when I hear the wrong words or grammar for example when my mother answers the phone and says "this is her" I always yell this is "SHE". I enjoy learning new concepts in grammar because life is not only about writing but speaking correctly as well.
ReplyDeleteThe article "Everybody loves Pizza, don't they?" explains the common grammar errors that people make by using "they or them" incorrectly. I never actually realize that it was a grammar mistake, since many people happen to write and say it wrong. Although, using he/she might sound silly, it is the correct way to write it. It might be hard to change this habit but good writers always try to improve.
ReplyDeleteThis article points out the common grammar mistakes people make because the correct usage looks or sounds wrong. I do not think it is simply an issue of people misusing the he or she, they or them, in the sentence but that people really do not know the rules. It does not sound correct to use "he" with "everybody" so people do not speak that way and therefore when writing a lot of people do not realize that how we speak is not necessarily correct. The main point is that even though the sentence may sound jarring, it is correct, and we can not always trust our instincts to tell us what is correct or incorrect when it comes to grammar.
ReplyDeleteCHINWUDE ARACHIE SAID...
ReplyDeleteThis article explaines the easily made errors that we make in grammar. It is natural to speak what is comforatble to you whether its incorrect or correct.