The reading summary is done by:ENGL300-1: LaMonica Brown
ENGL300-2: Stephanie Feeman
Due by class time on:The responses by the whole class are due by class time on:The text you need to read is here
English 300-01 LaMonica Brown
The article “Grammar Instruction: What Teachers Say” uncovers the many struggles of teaching grammar student from grammar school all the way to graduate school. Brenda Arnett Pretuzzella breaks down the differences between what colleges teach future teachers in education courses and what practicing teachers in schools actually do. She also found that grammar instruction was a waste of time.
Brenda shares some of her experiences she had with her student in high school. She found many students unable to learn correct grammar. “I would painstakingly prepare and teach a lesson on nouns and verbs, using the most creative and relevant examples I could think of, and many students would fail the quiz.” Brenda wanted to get rid of the traditional ways of teaching and come up with a whole other way to get through to her students. Another factor was that she had to teach high school student who can be disruptive and overly dramatic at times.
You also have to take into consideration that most schools are very diverse and kids from different races and cultures are using different languages. It is very hard to turn off the “slang” language and write in correct grammar.
English 300-2 Stephanie Feeman
The article, "Grammar Instruction, What teachers say" opened up a perspective that many people are unable to see on a daily basis. The author, Brenda Arnett Pretuzzella opened up the article by stating the huge difference between what they teach prospective teachers in college education courses and what practicing teachers actually do in the classroom. She said that most college courses discourage the idea of teaching formal grammar lessons, while most high school grammar teachers say they need grammar instruction in their classrooms.
The author talked about during the times she was in school, there was no question as to whether or not grammar was needed as a primary subject. She learned about the eight parts of speech, and how to diagram sentences. Then when she entered college she found out that grammar was a waste of time. In 1963, an article was published titled "Research in Written Composition." The authors, Richard Braddock, Richard Lloyd-Jones, and Lowell Shoer, conducted a study and found that most teachers agreed that teaching grammar had no positive effect on student writing. This lead to a suggestion that grammar instruction could therefore be abandoned. Many professors were overcome with joy when they heard this, because they found grammar dull and boring.
When she began teaching grammar in her own classroom she found that most students were incredibly reluctant to learn it. She tried to use creative teaching methods and relevant examples, yet students still seemed to fail the quizzes. She went on to talk about the difficulties in helping the student fix their writing mistakes, when they had no knowledge of common grammatical vocabulary. She tried many different ways to teach the students about even the most common grammar functions and she continued to feel inadequate. She said that she found that when she worked with students one on one they grasped the concepts better. Towards the end of the article she sums up that part of the difficulty in teaching grammar was the lack of resources. Since most professors and authors agreed that grammar was pointless, there was little literature on how to effectively teach grammar to students.
It was very interesting to read what teachers thought about grammar, and how they thought of grammar in usage or pragmatic terms rather than a structure of language. Moreover, the idea that writing comes before instruction in grammar is very interesting--the teachers interviewed seemed to believe that grammar and writing were intertwined. I really like the idea of teaching grammar through writing as opposed to standalone drills--though perhaps standalone drills will be necessary if students consistently make the same mistakes.
ReplyDeleteThis article is extremely interesting. Very little do we hear the teachers side to what they are teaching in their classrooms. To hear that teachers want to give up on teaching grammar is saddening. I believe that teaching grammar is important, but because it is an extremely difficult subject to teach, many give up on it. I think that if classrooms were to teach grammar on a one-on-one basis, the chances of students grasping the content would be higher than group teaching.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of teaching grammar through writing, because that is a form of one-on-one teaching. Drills are more group related.
Lately, I’ve been observing a high school grammar class. It is for sophomores. The teachers at the school where I’m observing feel that grammar is essential in making their students better writers. In the class, a lot of the students seem uninterested and tend to perform poorly on assignments. In my opinion, I feel like the teacher could be more creative, although she does clearly get her point across. I don’t remember any grammar instruction during my high school experience, and I had to learn how to use grammar by trial and error, self-inquiry, etc. Grammar needs to be taught in schools, even if it is only a one semester stand-alone class or if it is integrated into another curriculum. Just because students (and teachers) may find a subject boring, that doesn’t mean that that subject shouldn’t be taught.
ReplyDeleteI have learned that grammar is essential when learning English. We all have the ability to write but writing grammatical correct is different. Because I struggled with grammar in the past I an unsure how to edit my own papers. College has helped me learn basic grammar and English mechanics. I believe grammar needs to be taught in schools because as time goes grammar principles are being lost and forgotten.
ReplyDeleteI have notice that for many people grammar is hard to grasp and specially if no one cares about it. Throughout my high school years and in till this course no one ever corrected my grammar mistakes. In result, I hardly ever took consideration whether I was using correct grammar in my writing. I believe that the lack of interest in grammar by others influences everyone's writing. People can debate whether grammar is important or not but I believe that it makes a heck of a difference. Grammar makes writing more understandable and a lot cleaner.
ReplyDeleteI'm very aware that many people were not given proper grammar instruction through school, especially leading up to college. Through my college career so far, I've reviewed so many of my peer's papers, which had so many mistakes you'd wonder how they got by this far. It's not always the student's fault that they lack proper grammar instruction, but I find it entirely sad that a teacher's student teacher would have a lesser working knowledge of grammar, usage, and punctuation than the teacher's students (Petruzzella, 69). I'm not sure if English will be the first thing I'll teach, but I hope by that point grammar instruction matters a little bit more than it apparently matters now.
ReplyDeleteI am very shocked to learn grammar lessons are ineffective. When I was in grammar classes throughout grade school and high school I felt like I always took something out of it and improved my grammar skills. It is a problem that children are so reluctant to learn grammar. Teachers need to look at this as a challenge to find a better way to teach their students grammar so that they can use it as a tool for the rest of their lives.
ReplyDeleteMy high school teachers focuced more on creative expression than they did grammar. Although they did clearly get thier points across. I don’t remember any grammar instruction during my high school experience, and I had to learn how to use grammar by trial and error,but grammar is essential to learning how to write formal English
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to believe that teachers find that teaching grammar appears to be ineffective. Grammar is essential in learning to write properly and effectively. I believe grammar should be taught through writing. Learning to write in a grammatically correct manner is essential to a student's future success.
ReplyDeleteAlthough there were studies which suggest that grammar is a waste of time. I completely disagree. Petruzzella even explained how she had a hard time teacher her students when she couldn't use the proper terminology such as verb or subject. It just doesn't make sense saying that grammar is not important. Without grammar, it is hard to communicate with the rest of the world in a proper manner. Even though there was some controversy over teaching it, it is a good thing that some teachers were still teaching some form of grammar. A number of teachers believes that it is important to some degree.People who dedicate their lives to teaching English should come to an agreement on what types of grammar drills should be taught. That as the article points out, will be a little harder than one has thought.
ReplyDeleteI found this article interesting and quite odd that most teachers feel that way towards grammar. All the teachers i have had growing up have pushed the learning of grammar and spent most of our time on that. However, I guess I can see were teachers might find it boring to a point were it would have negative effect on learning. I never seemed to pay attention during grammar lessons because of the dull content.
ReplyDeleteI've never really thought about how teachers must feel day in and day out trying to teach something to students and the students never really grasping the concepts. This must be especially hard with something like grammar when many high school students have little and no exposure to it. The feeling can be overwhelming and there may be times when the teacher feels like they aren't doing their job well and want to give up. It really makes me wonder how my teachers feel when we take a test and the class does way worse than expected.
ReplyDeleteIn high school, my grammar teacher would hand us a sheet of paper that contained grammar mistakes. This sheet also contained one or two sentences with examples of what we were trying to find. The teacher would call on us randomly and expect us to know the answer without a lesson. Because of this, a majority of the class struggled. This led to me making mistakes on a regular basis. I do believe that grammar is not a waste of time, and that it is important and essential for writing. This is a prime example of how some teachers find it a waste of time teaching grammar.
ReplyDeleteIn the article, "Grammar Instruction: What Teachers Say" the author states the declining opinion of the importance of grammar. Children feel that grammar is difficult or pointless and are hesitant to try and learn how to use grammar. Originally, grammar was viewed as very important and it was stressed as part of the school curriculum. As a teacher, she states that it is difficult to teacher grammar nowadays, not only because children do not have an interest in it but also because instructors feel it is less important and therefore there is little research on the subject.
ReplyDeleteThis article was extremely interesting for me. I never knew that high school teachers had such problems teaching grammar to their students. I for one must have been a nerd on the subject because I always liked knowing proper grammar. It is understandable when it becomes so difficult for them to teach it when they can't pull to many resources. It isn't like there are many grammar movies out there you can show in the classroom. I know a couple of my English teachers in high school would complain they wish they had more videos to make their subject seem more interesting. I wish it wasn't such a bland subject to some people because it can be a very rich subject, only if you let your mind be open to it.
ReplyDeleteI found this article very interesting. I enjoyed seeing the teachers side of things considering I am going to school to be a teacher. I believe that grammar is very important in education and should be integrated into the curriculum whether it be in a stand alone class or in an English course. In order for students and teachers to be more interested in grammar, teachers should be more creative. Teachers need to emphasize that grammar is indeed very important and be more creative and exciting when teaching it so students are more excited to learn.
ReplyDeleteI always like to hear the perspective of the teacher and how they feel about what they are teaching. The author says that many teacher were happy to abandon grammar. This directly contradicts my schooling experience. Nearly every English teacher I have ever had stressed grammar and the importance of it. While grammar will not reflect the quality of the writing, meaning the content, without it the work could very well be illegible. While simple grammar mistakes may go unnoticed in good literature, frequent and noticeable grammar mistakes will ruin a very good work. Also, I feel like teachers need to attack grammar with enthusiam rather than just act as if they are bored with it because students will pick up on that notion and take no extra care to learn it.
ReplyDeleteThe teachers side is always interesting because it is rarely heard. It seems as if grammar is seen as not as important as it once was. It is important to teach in a way that shows the importance of grammar too. Especially in today's world with all the slang and texting lingo. In my high school wouldn't spend more than a month on grammar in any particular year.
ReplyDeleteThis article Grammar Instruction: "What Teachers Say" by Brenda Arnett Pretuzzella discussed teachers not thinking of grammar as a structure of language but thinking of grammar in usage or pragmatic terms. The idea of teaching grammar through writing is a strange idea only because it wasn't the way I was taught. After taking time to think about learning grammar through writing, I feel it could be more beneficial because students can learn grammar to their specific writing style and keep character in their writing. I don't believe teaching grammar in individual lessons should be thrown out the window, but if it is not working another alternative is needed.
ReplyDeleteTo me grammar is one of the most important concepts of the English language; along with spelling. A lot of people have an issue with spelling but a spelling mistake can be easily by-passed. On the other hand if a person speaks or writes incorrectly, they are judged and categorized as dumb or poor ect. for not having the proper teaching methods. Yet teachers think grammar is ineffective. If grammar is taught then vocabulary and sentence structure is learned. I was taught grammar when I was young and it has followed me throughout my years. I despise when people speak or write incorrectly, I am one to quickly correct someone, but that is how I was raised. Grammar comes from not only schools and teachers, but in households as well and it is a very important factor of learning.
ReplyDeleteThis article was very interesting. I know in my high school we were rarely taught grammar, but teachers would integrate with other lessons. I feel that a separate grammar course should be required simply because most students do so poorly in that area. In the author's case, I think she needs to realize that all classrooms are different and you can't always present a lesson the same way and expect the same results. So far college has done a great job with grammar instruction and I have never felt behind or lost, but it still would have been nice to have been taught more in high school.
ReplyDeleteThe article "Grammar Instruction, 'What Teachers Say,"' explains how many teachers believe that grammar is not useful for writing. I disagree with this statement. Outside of diagramming, learning grammar is very important in learning how to write. In multiple English classes I have been asked to grade other students papers and have found words such as: ain't, finna, and even explicit words used has adjectives. Outside of sentence diagramming, grammar should be taught and graded strictly.
ReplyDeleteMany people are not given proper grammar instruction through school, especially leading up to college. Through my college career so far, I've reviewed so many of my peer's papers, which had so many mistakes you'd wonder how they got by this far. It's not always the student's fault that they lack proper grammar instruction, but I find it entirely sad that a teacher's student teacher would have a lesser working knowledge of grammar, usage, and punctuation than the teacher's students.English will be the first thing I'll teach and I hope by that point grammar instruction matters a little bit more than it matters now in the academic environment.
ReplyDeleteThis article is compiled of some surprising information. The author basically says that grammar lessons are overrated and do not have all the benefits that everyone thinks. This may be somewhat true, but the author also voices that in order to improve a students writing the student must at least be taught basic grammar rules. I agree that students should have a grasp on grammar rules. Although, I do strongly feel that many teachers today do not incorporate creative and passionate writing enough in the classroom. I had a high school English teacher who focused on moving literature and powerful writing. She challenged the students limits as writers and it was an amazing class.
ReplyDeleteIn the article "Grammar Instruction, What Teachers Say" was very interesting to me considering that I want to be an English Teacher myself. In my opinion the article overs stressed the fact that in college grammar becomes a non important factor when teaching future educators to teach and therefore be completely eliminated. I don't not agree with this at all. Considering the way that our generation writes grammar should be forced into our daily lives, than again that is my opinion. I also do not agree with teaching grammar through the writing of students. To me that is very dumb and defeats the purpose of grammar studies. students should not be criticized in their writing if they were never given the opportunity to make it right in the first place. I feel that teaching grammar skills in college for future English educators is highly important and needs to stay in the requirements for future educators.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the article entitled "Grammar Instruction: What Teachers Say", coming to the realization that grammar is influenced more by what's heard in one's environment versus the educational approach of teaching grammar; one can only question teachers efforts of attempting to teach appropriate grammar. The opposition between teaching appropriate grammar and speaking with slang in a classroom setting contradicts the efforts of the teacher, which is another point author Brenda Arnett Pretuzella pointed out. I find this point fairly relevant. If one were surrounded by proper etiquette, the reinforcement of proper etiquette would be prevalent, and the efforts of using proper etiquette are then worth the trial.
ReplyDeleteI thought that this article was very interesting and gave a fresh thought to how grammar could be taught. Making lessons more individualized sounds like a very good idea to me because some people learn different things at different rates. This is what I feel makes grammar difficult for some people teachers will just teach it then not really teach them how to put it into their own work. I feel that there should be more grammar teachers this passionate about teaching their students.
ReplyDeleteSince the beginning of this semester, I have been observing a high school English class for seniors. At the school where I’m observing, my CT, as well as many other of the English faculty, believe the understanding and skill in grammar to be essential in preparing the students for college, as well as making them better writers. Unfortunately, many of the students seem bored and uninterested when lectured about these notions, and thus they still remain to perform poorly in their papers and other written assignments. As a future educator, I feel that teachers should be much more creative when presenting material that generally does not appeal to the student body However, the teachers, specifically my CT, often receive positive performances when the students immediately complete the homework; yet, the information does not stick with them for long. I was fortunate enough to be taught grammar in middle school and junior high; however, the influence and focus on grammar was less imperative when I reached high school, but some instruction was still taught through the feedback that I received on my papers. All throughout a student’s educational career, grammar should be implemented in either a single class or integrated throughout another course in the assigned curriculum; it will simply produce more positive results in the workforce and in colleges. Disinterest in a subject is simply no excuse for something to not be taught, or even learned.
ReplyDeleteI am not shocked at all that grammar lessons tend to be infective. I remember learning grammar in high school but that is the extent of what I remember. I do not remember any of the rules. I did not have grammar in high school. I have learned more about grammar in college than I did when I was younger. Perhaps some of the grammar lessons stuck because there are times when I write grammatically correct with out consciously making the choices. I feel that incorporating grammar into other lessons is a great idea. While teaching grammar in seclusion does have benefits, it can often be difficult for all of the rules to stick without actually applying them.
ReplyDeleteI found this article to be really interesting. I am currently observing juniors and seniors in high school and have not yet seen a grammar lesson taught. I think once students reach a certain level in school then grammar tends to take a back seat. I think that grammar lessons should continue all throughout high school so it stays fresh in a student's mind. This is especially important in preparing student's for future college English and writing courses.
ReplyDeleteThis article discusses how grammar is taught during different years of a students life. Teaching grammar in not just English and Literature subjects, but in many other subjects as well is a great idea. In order for students to learn what they need to for their future, grammar needs to be a main part of their educational carreer.
ReplyDeleteGrammar is a very important part of a student's education, yet it is rarely taught exclusively. I can remember being given grammar instruction in my younger years, but in junior high and high school, there was little focus on the subject, just red marks all over papers with no explanation. I believe it would be beneficial to students to integrate more grammar instruction into the curriculum. It is sad that I am no longer surprised by the extent of grammatical mistakes I find in my peers' writing.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised that educators felt grammar was not important to good writing. I would like to think that grammar was something that I didn't need to bother with, but I know my own writing improves as my knowledge of grammar grows. For one, an understanding of grammar provides many with the confidence they need to express themselves. Still, I remember only one high school teacher who taught actual grammar lessons. Then, in college, most professors only punish the student for grammar mistakes; they rarely realize the student has little previous grammar instruction.
ReplyDeleteI can only imagine how hard it is for teachers to try and teach grammar, especially to people who just don't care. Grammar is such an important piece to the puzzle that is language. It is extremely saddening to hear that teachers just don't find grammar to be important. Then again that could be because, no matter how hard they try, people just won't learn it. I know I've never had a class solely about grammar, but I know if I've ever read a paper with bad grammar, it is painstaking to get through. I do believe, however, that perfect grammar isn't exactly necessary for great writing. That's to say that I feel a person must know perfect grammar, but chooses to write without it. Maybe that is how grammar should be taught, with writing. If you don't see or don't understand what you are doing wrong, then you cannot learn the proper way of doing it.
ReplyDeleteThe article was really interesting just to read what the teachers thought about grammar and had to say. It must be even harder on them for those students that didnt get taught it in highschool and come to college an little lost. I can understand how frustrating that can get for instructors to deal with students that havent learned much in grammar.They really went in depth about the whole grammar issue though.
ReplyDeleteIts nice to see a different point of view. The teachers point about grammar. I think that grammar should not be nit picked and if you know what the person is saying then you should not have to worry about picking out all the mistakes in the sentence.
ReplyDeleteThis article was well needed. It gives the teachers point of view on teaching grammar, rather than the student being taught. It shows if the student is having a hard time learning that the teacher is having a hard time teaching. Grammar is an hard subject to teach as it is, but adding the confusion from the student makes it ten times harder or the teacher.
ReplyDeleteDoing my younger years of education grammar was very important. Teachers preached on how important grammar was but since then that hasn’t been the focus in English. Doing my college career I have been focusing more on writing techniques and different writing styles. I feel that grammar is still important because you have to efficient in all areas especially adults. I feel that you need to know grammar to be a good writer and without a good sense of grammar.
ReplyDeleteI liked hearing the teachers opinion on grammar. I never felt like the teachers I had in school were completely stuck on our grammar skills. Why I don't think my school was the worst, I just don't feel like they would have talked about our grammar in any such way as these teachers have in the article. Although I may lack in some areas of grammar, I don't think i lack anymore than anyone else. Of course, there is always someone better in a subject and someone who is worse.
ReplyDeleteGrammar, to me, is the base of a good education. Although some teachers say things like they're not worried about grammar, grammar is used in every subject. It is all around us and I feel that poor grammar skills are a reflection of character. In my school, grammar was highly emphasized and I feel that I greatly benefitted from it. Everyone is different but to be creative in writing without being able to use words correctly seems a bit backwards.
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